71. Embrace your "misfit" and stand out, with Steph Gillies

PATRICIA:
Well, hello, Steph. How are you doing today? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm glad that you're here today. We've got a lot of important topics. I know that, um, you know, you've got this really great career story to share with us and then we're going to get into some of the other pieces, but you want to start there with your career story and share a little bit about it.

STEPH: Yeah, for sure. So when I was younger, you know, I was I was taught the typical adage where you have to graduate high school, get a degree, get in a job and work there till you retire. And I did not do that. I had 32 jobs in 15 years. And so I got really good at applying for jobs at, you know, the application process. And then I wondered, you know, I wonder if there's a way to like turn this into a business. But then I ended up graduating with a social work degree and, you know, got into the nonprofit world and I spent many years there. But then at the beginning of the pandemic, I was working for a small family charity and I was laid off. And so it was kind of an opportunity for me to make that choice. You know, do I want to go back to another nonprofit job, which I wasn't really loving, or did I want to jump in and start my own business? And so I got certified as a resume writer and interview coach and started my own business doing the primarily the resume writing at first and then adding the coaching on as well. And then I really started noticing that people I mean, everyone's resumes started to look the same after a while. And so I really wanted to focus on helping people really leverage what makes them unique. Because when you ask people that question, they typically say things like, I'm really good at communication. I'm really empathetic. And it's always kind of, you know, a similar type of skill that they draw upon. But there's more than that, right? If you go deeper, you can really find more, more uniqueness in them. But anyways, I'll get off my soapbox. So three years ago, I started my own business. And that has been my focus is really helping people figure out what makes them unique, what helps set them apart, and then building that into their personal brands that they can stand out in the job search process.

PATRICIA: I love it. We're like totally kindred in that sense because that's very similar, right? There's so much more than this one small facet you're sharing that seems to feel so frequent. And so I'm glad that you're helping them with that as well. I really want to hear, so you had, was it, oh, tell me again, how many? 32 jobs in 15 years. 32 jobs. Okay. So, I mean, you know, we're not going to walk through every single one of those 32 jobs, but something like when you see something and you're like, whoa, 32 jobs in so many years, like what was going on for you during that timeframe? Like when you look back and think, oh, this is what I was experiencing.

STEPH: yeah, I was really looking at, um, I was really trying to figure out what I was supposed to do. Right. So everyone, you know, like saying how you're supposed to like find this one thing that you had to do until retirement. And that just felt so overwhelming to me. And I just kept trying a whole bunch of different things. And I was like, I'm going to try this. And then I'm going to try this not didn't like it. I'm going to try this. And I wasn't, I was, had not had a job for more than, a year during that time and I did do some part-time work where I worked multiple jobs simultaneously and then I was in university on and off because I couldn't decide what I wanted to do there either.

PATRICIA: I know that feeling and you know they say that on average students change their major seven times so not atypical right?

STEPH: Okay I changed mine three so

PATRICIA: See, you're ahead of the game. It's fine. Okay, so you're changing careers. One thing that I think makes it feel so overwhelming, tell me what your thoughts are on this, this word of like, find your passion. What are your thoughts either going through that or now coming out of it?

STEPH: Yeah, I think it's I think we just put a lot of pressure on our young people to figure this out, you know, like we're our prefrontal cortex is not even developed. And we're supposed to decide what our passion is and what we're supposed to do for the rest of our lives. I just think that's such a huge miss. And I definitely my son is only eight, but I make sure to tell talking to him about all the opportunities out there and all the different jobs there are and how you don't have to make up your mind when you graduate high school because we're going to change, right? We're all going to experience hardship at some point in our life and that usually changes our focus and our passion. And so I think the big message that I think is really important is that it's okay to change your mind. You can get into something and you can be like, hey, I did this for 10 years. I really liked it, and now I want to switch. And that's totally fine. I've worked with lots of people in career transitions. And everyone always, before I was a career coach, people were always like, oh, if you transition, you have to start back at the bottom. You can do it, but you're going to have to go back to that entry level position. Even though you were a CEO, you're going to have to go back. That's not true. That is so not true. I have helped so many people make lateral changes or maybe one step down into a new industry or a different job. There's so many opportunities out there. And the amount of resumes I've worked on with C-suite executives who don't even have an education section on their resume is staggering. Like there are, I know it's really all about the limits that we put on ourselves rather than the limits that are out there because there's quite a bit more opportunity than we think.

PATRICIA: Okay. I absolutely love this. So you said there's more limits that we put on ourselves, right? And that just starting from that, I feel like you kind of finished the episode beginning to end, right? There's that first self-limiting belief that really, maybe it's not self-limiting, maybe it's placed on us, but this idea of like finding your one thing. There's so many books like five, 10 years ago that are like, find your one thing and then focus on that forever. But I do think that's, what's leading to, like you said, so many people mid career, 10 years of experience, 15 years of experience, and they feel that their skillset is so finite. It's not, but that's that sense of like, I focused on my one thing and now that's all I have. Um, and I, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but then you also mentioned on the flip side of that, that when that happens, like, let's say for example, you. You did, you know, pick a career, you enjoyed it, it was a good run, but now you're at a place where it's burning you out or it's not really something that you're enjoying. You don't have to go back to the beginning. And I really like that you mentioned sometimes you do have to take a stepping stone position or go one step down. I think there's so much conversation out there about like, here's the hack so that you, you know, get a promotion every time you change industries and that's possible. But I think the reality is it's not guaranteed. Sometimes you do have to take a little shift, but it's not all the way down to the bottom of the barrel. Interesting. Okay. So you're going through this process. It feels overwhelming. When is this moment where you feel like I need to make a decision or I need to change my, you know, view of how I'm doing this?

STEPH: Um, I don't think I've ever reached that point to be honest with you. I never, I've always like, you know, every job I've been in, I've been like, you know, I don't have to stay here forever. I think the longest job I was in was five years. And, um, that was, and by the end of it, I was like, yeah, it's time to move on to something different for me. I just like, I think. I think of myself as someone who's multi-passionate, someone who has lots of different things that I'm interested in, and marrying those all together has been really difficult and challenging, and so what, um, so I just don't marry myself to one thing, you know, I don't feel like I need to make this final decision that this is what I'm going to do. Like, even now that I've been in my own business for three years, I really enjoy it. But I'm always like, how can I evolve? How can I grow? What can I do next? And that's really helps me to, you know, stay engaged and stay interested in it. Because once something gets monotonous, I get bored. I have ADHD. So

PATRICIA: Well, it's that piece of like, there's so many options. And I think that term multi-passionate came about out of need because what our older generations only had five choices, right? I'm exaggerating here, but five choices of a career and you pick one and you fit yourself into and you enjoy your career. Right. But now we have so much choice. that part of it is decision fatigue, right? And then there's this idea of like, and I'm the same way where this is why I think we're both business owners, right? Like side note, if you're thinking of starting a business, right? There's so many different roles you can choose to hop in and out of that you do have this like multi-passionate or multi-talent kind of situation going and our world, our career workforce world is getting so expansive that you almost need to have that multiple, you know, skillset toolkit to be able to navigate the change quickly and with a little bit more agility. So, okay. Moving on from my own soapbox of like multi-passionate and having a lot of skills. So you have this quote unquote misfit career story, but you have turned that into like your thing. So tell us like how you've done that and then how do you help other people do that too?

STEPH: Yeah, I think that, you know, when I first started my business, just like everyone, I kind of just served everybody. I was like, oh, anyone who wants help, you know, come to me. And that's just not the way to grow a business. And I was hearing everyone talking about how you have to choose a niche. And I was resisting that for a long time. And so partly because I just didn't know, right? I wasn't sure what I wanted to land on. And so it was actually when I was reading Dogman. I don't know if you've ever heard of Dogman. It's a comic about a half dog, half man who's a police officer. And I was reading it to my eight year old son. And there was this chapter about how you know, he was sad because he doesn't fit in with the dogs, but he does also doesn't fit in with the humans. And then, you know, these these other people around him were like, you know, we all feel like misfits at some point in our life, you know. And it was just like this really cool, like bonding moment. And my son was just like, wow, I really like that. And I was like, you know what? So do I. I love that. And so I thought about, like, it just really related for me. And so I thought, like, you know, there's got to be other people out there that feel that way as well, considering it's in, like, a best-selling comic as well. And so I decided to kind of focus on that and really help people. Like, what it's about is not necessarily, like, identifying ourselves as a misfit, but what it's really about is embracing that side of us that makes us unique, that makes us authentic, right? We all have something that, you know, makes us different, that sets us apart from other people. And most of the time in the workplace, we hide that, right? We go to work and we're like, oh, we're going to hide that part of ourselves and not show that because, you know, they just want us to conform to whatever they want. And what I really want to help people do is embrace that part of themselves. And if they're comfortable with it, bring it to work with them. and be able to show up fully authentically at work and people will be happier. Even if you don't change your job, but you show up more authentically at work, you're going to start to experience more fulfillment and happiness in the workplace.

PATRICIA: I love that. It's living in alignment with your values, like letting your values show, letting your values come out. And I feel like that's happening more and more in today's corporate workforce. I'm curious and I think our friend listening is probably curious as well. What does that look like? How do you help them through that process if they come to you and they're like, okay, I need to change careers and in the, you know, in creating their branding or in talking to them, you're like, hmm, there's this really cool part of you. And I'm wondering like what it would look like to be a part of your brand, not just a part of you, right? What process do you walk them through?

STEPH: It's really about looking at, you know, their whole life. So when people create their personal brand, they usually focus on their work and their education, like university education or college education, and they kind of leave it at that. But I think a lot of the times there's other parts of our life that are equally as important to us. So maybe you have a hobby, like I've worked with people who are, you know, triathletes, stuff like that that can be something really useful. I've worked with people who are yoga instructors for fun, they just do it for fun and that's like can be a huge part of who they are and what what makes them them. I've worked with people you know who have small businesses on the side, I've worked with people who you know they they're just really passionate about their community and they do a lot of volunteering a lot of volunteer work you know different things like I think it's really about encompassing the whole of your life and bringing that into your personal brand because I've worked with someone the person who was a yoga instructor she was applying for a sales job and we really focused her personal brand on how being a yoga instructor impacted her ability to be better in sales right because that and that would really set her apart so a hiring manager is going to look at 10 sales resumes all of them are going to say mostly the same thing except for this one that talks about the being a yoga instructor and how that impacts her ability to connect better with people and so I think it's really about you know, digging deep and thinking about what those things are that make you unique. And it doesn't have to be, you know, something, something big, like, oh, I run triathlons, it doesn't have to be something big like that, because we don't all have those things in our life. And so even just talking about, like having that conversation with a coach or someone that's important to you, about what do people recognize about you? You know, when you think about, you know, your your co-workers, your managers, you know, what do they say about you that that might be something you'd want to focus on? You know, what do people come to you for help for? You know, someone's like keeps coming to you and asking you for something. That's another indication of something that can set you apart. And then, you know, when you think about like when people say, I'm really good with people, Digging in deep, what does that mean? You could almost say that most people are good with people. Maybe not everybody, but everyone has a form of communication and can say they're good at it. But what does that truly mean? How do you impact someone else's life in a way that's different than maybe how I would impact someone else's life? And so thinking more about the impact that it has on the company or the people that you're talking to can really help to highlight your uniqueness rather than just being like, well, I'm good at communication.

PATRICIA: Wow. That is not only important, but often forgotten. And that's, it's two pieces really there. I love how your answers are always so comprehensive. Like they're like start to finish, right? You have two really important pieces in there that I'm like, okay, we cannot miss what you're sharing right now. One of them is that you, and I think you and I were talking about this probably a minute or two before we went into the call. Actually, we don't see what we don't see. Right. And so when we've been in a career for a while, we don't realize, oh, I have these skill sets that are sort of auxiliary that are needed in order to do my job. Well, it's just what I do. And I hear that a lot. Oh, well, that's just what I do. Well, that's great. But you have to share that too. Right. So there's that piece of, you know, we're so in the weeds in our own work. We're often like the dentist with the bad teeth. Right. But then when someone looks at it third person, they're like, oh, my gosh, you're amazing at X, Y, Z. One quick way, as you were talking, that reminds me of How you can get this information is to look at people who have opened doors for you, who have supported you. Like you mentioned people that tell you, Hey, how do you do that? Or they always come to you for XYZ situation. And you know, if there's someone who supported you ongoing for a continual basis, it's like, okay, I want to go back and ask them, what is it that you see in me? Cause you continue to open doors for me. There's something you see, and I'm not sure if I see it. And that's just, that's a great place to, to find that piece.

STEPH: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, like, even, even if you don't have someone like that, even friends or family, just asking them, you know, what, what are like my top three qualities, right? Something simple like that. And that can help to just get the process started.

PATRICIA: I love that. And even after that, the other part that you mentioned was the impact, right? We share, I have X, Y, Z skill, but sometimes it's so easy for it to come off sounding like a job description because that's what we see. That's the, what we take in, right? But to create something new with it, it's like, okay, what's the impact? And oftentimes the harder, the easy piece is figuring out what's the immediate impact that I see every day. So I, um, put together the software program. And so the salespeople are, the sales people are able to do their job. But then it's like, okay, well, what job do they do? What did you enable to happen? And so we keep going downstream to find this impact that ends up being bottom line. And so I feel like the points that you're bringing out are those points that if someone could kind of, you know, piece by piece, put those together, they'd really have a head up on creating their brand.

STEPH: Mm hmm. For sure. Because I mean, it's it's different when you say, you know, I'm really good at teamwork. But if you can share a story about a time when you were good at teamwork, that's going someone's going to relate better to that than me just saying I'm really good at teamwork, because I mean, anyone can say they're good at teamwork. But if you can prove it through a story, then, you know, people are going to relate to it a little bit better.

PATRICIA: Yes. Okay. So I do want to touch on, I know we're at 20 minutes already and I don't want to keep you too long, but I do want to touch on something that's so important. As you're going through the career process, a lot comes up and I want to say you and I maybe chatted about this, I cannot remember, but I work with women coming out of the adult industry, out of human trafficking. There's a lot of trauma there. And so that was when I, through that work is when I realized you know, this career search process is even more, um, it can be a very much a trigger because it's such an evaluative process. It's such a process of selling yourself and then, you know, being told yes or no, or being ghosted. And so that can bring up a lot of those trauma, you know, trigger points. Um, and so I know that you are trauma informed. So I'm really excited to hear kind of if you can share what that means, um, and how that impacts your work.

STEPH: Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. So I have a social work background, like I said. And so I've also worked with, you know, people from various really challenging backgrounds. And, you know, it just and you know, it really came about through through my own, like trauma work that I did, is I didn't really realize, um, you know, like I never had like a huge moment where I was like, wow, that was like, I was in a war or, you know, something like big happened to me. It was just like ongoing, you know, issues like with my family or whatever. And I really noticed, I didn't realize that that could be considered trauma as well. And so when I went through my own trauma healing process, you know, my therapist was like, oh yeah, well, whatever these practitioners are trauma informed. And I was like, I wonder what that means. And so I looked into it more and I was just really, I just love the idea of it. Like just realizing that everyone around you can carry trauma at any time. And when we're just conscious of that and we're paying attention to the fact that, you know, the things that we can say or the things that we can do can trigger somebody, I think that just really, really helps us relate to people in a different way. I think like recently I had a friend who went to she was dealing with this like financial situation. It was really stressful from several years ago. Then she went to the bank and was asking them for help. And they were super rude and like cut her off and were just like awful to her. And she and she left the bank. She was just crying. And she was like, you know, it was a trauma moment for her. And if had these people been, you know, trauma informed. they could have handled it in such a different way if they would have realized that maybe this situation for her was extremely stressful and traumatic in the past and we were bringing this back up years later and she felt like she was reliving it and I just think that you know if people just understood what it meant to be trauma-informed and to you know just be more human, you know, think about what other people might be going through, think about their triggers and how that might impact them, and then relate to them in a way that, you know, where they have choice and where they feel comfortable. So when I say, you know, I encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, I always say, you know, whatever makes you feel comfortable, because not everyone is going to want to, you know, maybe if their sexual orientation is, is, is not, you know, heterosexual, that might not be something they want to bring to work. That might be something they want to keep private. or whatever is their choice, right? You want them to bring what they want to bring to work and what they feel comfortable bringing to work, not because you have to show up authentically. So bring everything to work so that they can feel that comfort and not re-traumatize themselves in the process.

PATRICIA: Yeah. you know, what it, what brings to, comes to mind for me is the, you know, as you're going into, I don't know about you, but I'll share my experience and you could tell me if, if it's on the same lines, but I noticed it's all, I don't want to say fun and games, that's an exaggeration, but, um, it's all good. We really enjoy our time when we're working on branding and all, look at these great things. Right. And then it's like, okay, now we're going to get into networking. brick wall. Like it just, it feels like it was fun. And now I don't really think I need coaching. No, thank you. I'm just going to step by, you know what I mean? And so I'm like, no, this is the, this is the power piece. Right. Um, but it involves people. And anytime we start getting involved with people, especially new people, you know, this is where the pieces start to come up and they didn't respond to me. This must mean X, Y, Z. What does that look like for you as a trauma informed coach?

STEPH: Yeah, I mean, that's a big question. Networking is one of the hardest parts of, I mean, as entrepreneurs, as well as for job seekers, but it can also be one of the most valuable parts of it. And so what I really encourage people to do, especially if they're just starting out with their networking journey, is to really focus on using LinkedIn, something where you're not getting on calls with people, because that is a bigger commitment. So you can have conversations through Messenger on LinkedIn or whatever other social platform you have, and then just create a message that you feel comfortable sending out, and send it out to three people, and then just forget about it for a week and a half. Don't worry about it. Don't start. Don't like don't start sending messages to three people every day. We don't need to start there. Right. Just start with three people and then see how it goes. And what you're going to find is that, you know, maybe one out of three, the three people will respond. But most of the time you're going to find that people will respond quite positively. You know, my own experience was I hated the networking piece. I would literally like hold my breath and hit send on this message. And then I'd be like, OK, I'm not doing that again. that I'd like walk away from my computer. I hated it so much and now I have like the most interesting relationships with people through LinkedIn. I mean I have a monthly call with another entrepreneur who lives in Sweden and we just chat about our business once a month and how things are going. Like it's just unbelievable the potential there is through networking. And so I just like and then I also encourage people to just think about it as like building friendships, right? We don't need to go into it and be like, hey, I need this from you. You know, this is what I want from you. You go into it just talking to them, building a relationship and see where it goes. If it doesn't go anywhere, some people are not your your type of person. You don't need to continue the conversation. And so, you know, it's all about us having that choice and deciding when and how we want to respond.

PATRICIA: Oh, this is valuable. This is valuable. One of the things you mentioned kind of brings that to light or to the surface, this piece, this piece of like, when I'm making the decision whether or not to take action to network, but I'm going to change the word, let's say relationship, you know, build a relationship because it feels a little better, doesn't it? Network. Absolutely. And so part of it is the terminology, but what you mentioned that I think is so valuable is it's almost like you, you help them see the motive, right? So the motive versus the benefit. What's the motive of not networking? There's a little bit of fear in there and sort of calling that out gently, but calling that out. And then there's the benefit and the benefit, it sounds like from what you were talking, it sounds like, you know, and we do as humans, we get life from interaction with other humans. And so it's like, okay, I can get into this conversation and literally get life, like build a community, build a relationship. but I'm not for fear that something may or may not happen, which I think is really, um, it, Oh, I just, it's not a great place to be. And this is why I saw this image on LinkedIn literally yesterday before yesterday. And it was a square. And I remember it had this tiny little square on the bottom right-hand corner that was filled in. And it said something, I'm going to butcher it, but it said something to the effect of, Here's what will happen in your future. And here's what you worry about. So it's like we worry about 110 things where only one of them will potentially actually happen in the future. So we spend our life worried and fearing things that aren't really there at the expense of actually living our life. And so it's, it's such a hard balance of this like challenge and support, right? Of like, let me kind of nudge you a little bit, but we're going to continue to go at your place, but I am going to nudge you. You know what I mean? What is that like for you?

STEPH: For sure. I think that's that's always a challenging balance. I mean, I'm sure you've come across other coaches who are all about that, just pushing people really hard. And that's just not typically my style. I'm more, you know, collaborative in the in the way that I communicate with my clients. But there has I mean, at some point there does they are there to change and grow. And so there has to be a little bit of that pushing. And, you know, you know, trying it, you know, maybe networking, they try networking through LinkedIn, and they're like, you know what, that just doesn't work for me, I'd rather go to like an in person networking event. I don't know, that's not my thing. But maybe it's someone else's thing. And so, you know, like experimenting with the different ways, because there's not just one way to do everything. And I think that that is like, a big message that's out there, right? There's this is the way to get a job. This is the way to network. And, you know, there's so many different ways to do it. And I think opening that up and allowing people the choice of the way they want to network and the way they want to get out there and meet people is really a missed part of the process.

PATRICIA: Yeah. Giving that choice. It's all sort of like with choice comes courage, right? Like being able to choose this is how I want to do it. So it gives you back a little bit more of that sense of control. Gosh, I could ask you so many other questions, but let's assume I one day, but for right now, let's assume there's millions of people listening and there's a, your core message, like what you want to communicate with your business. What would that be?

STEPH: I want to encourage people to be more authentic, show up as themselves, and not be afraid to showcase what sets them apart and how it benefits them in their career search. I think that's the big message that I want to share.

PATRICIA: Wonderful. It's been so great chatting with you today. I know people are going to want to reach out to you, work with you. Tell us how to get a hold of you. And if there's anything you have to share with them, feel free to drop, let me know. I'll drop the link in the description.

STEPH: For sure. I hang out mostly on LinkedIn. So my name's Steph Gillis and then my website is destinationdreamjob.com. So.

PATRICIA: Very cool. Well, again, thank you so much for spending time with us today for all the great information that you've shared. And everyone, thanks for sticking around, listening to us. Let, uh, oops, I'm going to have to edit that out. I just, this happens. Okay. Where was I? All right. So again, thank you for listening to us. Know that we love you. We're praying, praying. We'll see you on the next one.

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